Posted by jadecanary on June 23, 2008
I am STUNNNEDHENCHMAN. Yes, it is true. I’ll give you a little background on the name. I needed a name. STUNNEDHENCHMAN seem VS-ie. I went for it. The End.
I don’t post much on the Realms. There really isn’t much I have to say on the forum. The conversation revolves around how to break a card or real honest-to-God competition. There has never seemed to be much for me to comment about.
I headed to the Realms on Thursday after I got home for work as one of those “last second” checks before I get ready for hobby league. When I get there, I see a second message from UDE for the Mega-Weekend fiasco. I don’t care about Mega-Weekend NY. I feel for those that traveled there only to get screwed, but I wasn’t one of them. What caught my attention was the last paragraph…
Reprinting our recent sets has been a hot topic on the realms recently, and the only thing I can say to you guys about this now is to continue to express your interest in these products not only here, but also to your retailers. This will propagate the signs of demand up the chain through retailers to the distributor level, where it will hit out sales scouts and come back to us. Obviously, we know that there are players who are having trouble getting their hands on products, but we need a better idea of the exact number of players impacted and the size of the demand.
Reprints. We need to order a product that is no longer available so that UDE may consider wether or not to make more. What? So I said (wrote?)…
I really don’t know how this works. Am I suppose to go to Emerald City (our store) tonight and say, “AJ, I want some DC Legends.” He’ll say, “They don’t make it anymore.” And I’ll say, “I know, but if I want UDE to reprint the set, you have to order more of something you know the distributor doesn’t have and Upper Deck Entertainment doesn’t print anymore.”
Will this actually get DC Legends reprinted?
I waited a few posts and, what do you know, my political adversary RanmaSolo posts a reply to my question.
That’s exactly how DC Legends would and could be reprinted. You have to tell your store owner to request more boxes/cases from distributors. BUT ONLY ASK FOR PRODUCT YOU’LL ACTUALLY BUY!
Suck on this one, haters! Yes, it doesn’t solve everything, but it’s a notch on the clubbing stick and it proves the little guys fighting for us CAN and WILL win. But they can’t fight if we don’t continue to support the game and give them ammunition.
I really did not like his tone. “Suck on this one, haters?” Ranma, do you have sand in your vagina? Okay, that was a rude way of replying to a post from Thursday. What I meant to say was what I actually said (wrote?)…
We bought out Marvel Legends, we bought out DC Legends, and we are concerned that we are going to buy out Marvel Universe.
I sincerly apologize, from the bottom of my heart, that I didn’t buy more of Man of Steel. But let’s be honest, at the point it is decided to cut back to two expansions and increase the amount of cards in an expansion, not to mention uping the power curve, the run gets limited. Do you seriously think that the market could get saturated with “good” cards? how can you expect new players to come in with the limitedness of the sets? If you make it, WE WILL BUY IT!
It turned out we did buy out of MUN. I found this out later. So the thread evolved and the “why doesn’t UDE just turn on the press” people battled the “UDE must make sure they make their money and not have another DSM/MSM catasrophy” people. Funny, I am one of the “Let them eat cake!” guys and Ranma is one of the “protect the corporate machine” guys. Anyway, back on topic. A Moderator of the Realms, a man (woman? I really don’t know) by the screen name of WalterKovacs has been chioming in and out on the subject, quoting Corporate Machine kiss-up Ranma…
Players ask their store to tell their distributor they want more boxes of Legends [X boxes].
The store compiles those ‘orders’, and tells the distributor they want Y cases.
The distributor compiles those ‘orders’ and tells UDE they want Z cases.
UDE adds up the ‘orders’ from all the distributors for a total ‘run’ of A cases.
When A >= P it’s worth printing. They want to know exactly how many boxes are wanted … if they know they can sell the ammount they have to print to make the run worth printing, then it’s worth printing. Also, a reprint that requires a THIRD reprint would be wasting money … so avoiding underreprinting is also important.
Oooh, Algebra. And I though the original 3-drop Plastic Man was difficult. At this point, I was annoyed. UDE has designed a set that creates a whole new power curve, then tells people they aren’t going to print alot because WE didn’t buy out the crap sets. Oooh, naughty us. Anyway, it was getting late, I was on the phone with Arkham (Marc) and telling him about all of this nonsense on the Realms and he agreed with me. I added a last post before I headed out.
Why don’t we just make each set “print to order”? Then everybody gets what they want right away. Heck, why don’t we just send UDE a list of the cards we need to finish our decks and some money (or points) and just do it that way. Do you know how much whining and complaing that would solve? And UDE has the EXACT amount to print. No saying, “We need 2 cases in Seminole, FL.” But when we open those cases, somebody didn’t get their playset of Warbound rares, we have to turn around and beg for a third printing.
You’ve made a few really good cards recently, UDE. Just print them, they will be purchased. That’s it, I’m done, going to go to the hobby league now.
The “print to order” comment was Marc’s. The “print to order singles” was mine. I’m serious about that. Just send in the list of cards you need, UDE will price them, wait 11 months, and presto! Some of your cards arrive! Maybe if we order singles from the distributor, UDE will make them. Y’know, from now on, I’ll just send my card ideas, new team theme ideas and other things to the distributors. Maybe they will see print.
While I was gone, one man was willing to continue the good fight…
What guarantees that the distributors will pass the orders to UDE for a product that they have already been told by UDE is sold out?
That was GreenLantern73 in the last post of page 2. Nobody would mention it again until Page 5 by TauronNox. These are now two of my favorite people.
Oh, it would be rude of me not to quote Ranma’s last dig on me from Thursday (Geez, can’t a guy go to hobby league without his sand in the vagina political nemesis quoting him while he’s gone…)
Marvel Team-Up. It’s still there. Under 30 bucks for a box shipped, as much as you want. World’s Finest for 55 and up.
So yes, I think the market can be saturated with “good” cards, very easily. I think it was and is. Did they undershoot MVL and DCL? No ####. MUN? Probably.
I think DWF is/was probably exactly right, but I could be wrong on that! So, pre-order. Period. Ask for more MVL and DCL and MUN. Period. Do what it takes. Don’t ##### about something YOU can fix.
We can’t fix OP. We can’t fix late shipments. We CAN fix buying cards.
Emerald City is sold out of Marvel Team-Up and World’s Finest. Anyway, RanmaSolo wins the thread because I left, eh? Not so fast crankybritches. I stumbled on Rufferto asking UDE to reprint MUN. Here is Ranma taking out the club he uses to beat baby seals and smacking around Rufferto…
Originally Posted by Rufferto
I just want to repeat my request that you get more of the current set to the distributors.My local store called his distributor two days after the set came out to order more product and was told that it was sold out.I know there are boxes on the internet at slightly high retail prices to be had but a brick and mortar does not stay in “business” by purchasing his merchandise at the same price it sells it for.
How ####ing hard is it to do math people? Boxes can still be bought for a fairly UNDER RETAIL price online. RETAIL price is 3.99 a pack. 24 x 3.99 = 95.76.
Originally Posted by Rufferto
The statement that this is somehow our fault is ludicrous.We have been slowly growing the game in our area since the mass exodus when all the money went away.There is no game to bring them into if there are no cards for them to buy.Printing to order is an incredibly cynical business model that cares only for bottom line and nothing for customer satisfaction.Especially with sets coming out a half a year apart.
Who blamed us? They’re the ones who waaaaay over printed crap like Superman and Spider-Man which THEY designed in the first place and THAT’S why we’re in this situation. The 10k’s could have gone away, the PC could have gone away, but without boxes and boxes of old product sitting around there’d be a LOT more retailers supporting our game.
Originally Posted by Rufferto
The game itself is the best it has ever been since I started with DOR. R&D has really got it down.The 4 sets of Modern have all outdone the one before it.(just my opinion)Love the sheer fanboy fun that has been injected into the card mechanics,hobby league,prize support,Marquee events,…etc.
Hell yes. 100% correct.
Originally Posted by Rufferto
However,our communities’ new growth spurt will soon turn into serious shrinkage if the corporator committies of U.D.E. cannot figure out that it goes:consumer buys product,consumer likes product,consumer buys more product.
If the consumer is really trying to buy the product, 100% serious about buying the product… Then the product will be reprinted. But you can’t just say it, you have to prove it. Step the #### up.
Originally Posted by Rufferto
We now go back to the match in progress,(3rd game of the 4th set),between the No Justice No Peacniks vs. Corporate Apologists.
You mean the people who can keep two contradictory thoughts in our head vs. those who can’t understand that something can be both good AND bad. Or that saying something is sold out isn’t reason enough to reprint it.
Ranma curses alot, doesn’t he. Not very nice language. How many packs of MUN do you think he bought? Think he’s already built Warbound and doesn’t want anyone to build the Illuminati so he can win some tournament? I don’t know. Those questions are purely hypothetical. Will Ranma’s hero Barak Obama tax the ka-ka out of us until we are all socialists serving the whims of the government? That is a real question. Moving on, At 2PM Friday, I got a headache. Not from anything other then trying to filter through the thread trying to find the discussion. So screw that, let’s start a new one. Ordering To Attempt Reprint was born. I quoted alot of what you have read here and added…
And that seems like where the conversation ended. I didn’t go to MegaWeekend (sorry, again, UDE for not supporting your product, I’ll go but a box of Man of Steel now) so that argument that went 9 pages doesn’t seem to be the place to bring this up again.
Like I said in my above quote, I went to hobby league last night. When I get in, I ask Dennis (our register jockey for the night), “Hey Dennis, I need you to get with AJ and order a case of Marvel Legends, DC Legends and Marvel Universe.”
“Yeah, that’s what UDE said to do on the VSRealms.”
He wanted me to quote him on his response…
“That is stupid. There is no f***ing way that is going to happen. This will not get past me.”
Luckly, AJ came by mid-way through the evening. He’ll save us!
“Hey AJ, we need you to order a case of Marvel Legends, a case of DC Legends, and a case of Marvel Universe.”
“They’re sold out.”
“Yeah, I know. This is what UDE told me to do if I ever want to see them reprint cards.”
“Sterling”, he said, “I have had a case of Marvel Legends on backorder, I have had a case of DC Legends on backorder, and now I have a case of Marvel Universe on backorder. Do you know how long it took for Marvel Universe to sell out?”
“Less then a week.”
(It’s funny, we had Marvel Universe last Thursday, but not the Release Celebratrion kit. This Thursday we had the Release Celbration kit, but no Marvel Universe.)
So what’s the deal, UDE? Should we expect a case of each of the three anytime soon? Or are you teasing us again?
As for the b**chfest about not buying the product, it is simple. 4 sets a year + 220 cards a set = Why waste your money trying to find the few rares you need while overdosing on commons you already have 12 of (despite my joking, Man of Steel was my first set. I bought a s***load of packs from that set). 2 sets a year + 273-330 cards a set = Common and Uncommon hunting as you go rare hunting.
There are so many teams in these sets. I am the DC player in the group, and I build all the teams. With DC Legends, I’ll never get my hands on the Trinity JLA build, nor can I ever play Doom Patrol. As for MUN, I decided, after looking at the previews, that Hulk looked really cool. I bought five packs at the store, and I was planning on picking up a couple boxes when I had the cash, except there are no more boxes.
So tell me UDE, have your salespeople already given you a number that is on backorder from the distrbutors? I have to think that when players started b**chin’ about not having cards that the owner’s started backordering.
Yes, apparently, I have a potty mouth too. I thought symbols get attention. Some people think Scarlett Witch gets peoples’ attention, but Zatanna could and would own her. That is off topic. The next few posters shared their grief about their retailers and not getting the stuff, yadda yadda yadda. I added,
If I look at the shelf of Emerald City, they have DOR, MSM, DSM, MMK, DGL, DJL, DCR and MHG. Not alot of some but a whole buncha of others. There are no more MTU and DWF (the last sets before Legendness).
Edited because I have a 2-year old trying to point things out to me on Baby Einstein and I keep losing my train of thought.
Yeah, Kal was climbing on me and wanting to watch his youtube favorites, so it was time to move on. I went one way, the thread went this way…
Master Vision: Maybe if more people ordered Big Mac and fries McDonald’s would have some Big Macs and fries waiting for us (Ster: I love this comment!)
BALDMAN: we still get the ‘tell someone else, and something will get done about it’ response.
neil04: yeah i dont think that will work. You tell your store owner to ask the distributor for something UDE is tellign them is sold out.
brokenyolk: Well, if more boxes do come to the stores, are they going to cost me $60-70 or over $100? If they’re priced where they are now, they won’t sell.
Master Vision: I guess what the issue here is that when you get a new person liking to eat Big Macs and fries you dont tell them to Pre-order them or search it out on the internet. (Ster: This one too!)
captainspud: I mentioned this process to my LGCS today, and his reaction was: “Wait, what? Seriously? They want us to order product we KNOW doesn’t exist?”
brokenyolk: OK – so stores can’t get product.
And UDE doesn’t want to fix this why? They don’t like making money? I don’t get it.
Suddenly, after dinner, the STUNNEDHENCHMAN returned…
I need my store to have product so I can run MUN Release Celebration.
Besides, I have felt harassed by people here and people at the store that I need to buy from brick and mortar. So I decide to do that, and they don’t have any. I can’t win. Now I know how the New Gods feel.
I got rep’d for the New Gods comment. I feel like such a Realmer now! Tee Hee! Then Ranma plays in the sand box without his panties again…
brokenyolk: Trying to give UDE my money shouldn’t be this hard.
RanmaSolo: Fine, order X amount of cases from UDE Direct, Yolk.
How ####ing hard is this to understand?
It costs X just to print ONE case. The second case then costs less, and so on. If they print… Let’s say 50 cases and it costs 10,000 dollars for each case, will you buy one? Yeah, exactly. So, until they have a certain amount of orders they’re not going to bother.
It’s not rocket science, it’s very simple math.
He used the f-word, I think. Why does Ranma always write his name after each post? It’s not even in his sig, he actually writes it. Are their other people that use the RanmaSolo handle? Did these people win threads? He did apologize to Yolk, which I think was nice:
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be… mean… I just, don’t get how so many people can’t understand the process. You have to pay to print the cards before you can sell them and it’s very expensive for even one case, so to reprint you really need to have the orders there or you’re just making a terrible business decision.
And the reason they have to print to order, which DOES suck, is that you can go and buy a lot of the old sets for pennies on the dollar. A friend just placed an order for FOUR HUNDRED packs of Spider-Man… For 40 bucks. WITH shipping. That’s 10 cents each. Retailers got HOSED on early sets and thus stopped supporting the game and thus a lot of the reason we’re in the trouble we’re in financially with this game.
And it wasn’t RanmaSolo -Sue, or RanmaSolo -Jim. It was RanmaSolo -Mike. And I know this because he wrote his name at the bottom of the post.
Later, on Saturday, Nick from Fun Express jumped on and told me that they have some MUN. A PM later, and I have all the info. They have less then a box left. Nick bought a box and the boys that run the shop bought a few packs. And no, Nick, Ebay is not an option. I am not going to try to win an Ebay auction for packs of Marvel Universe so that my players at Emerald City can buy them from me. That makes no sense to me. Oh, and Nick, the reason your hobby league crapped out at FE is that the store charges us if we just want to sit down and throw a couple of hands. Hell, they charged us to run a 3-man Galactus. At Emerald City, we charge to pay for the kit and only for sanctioned tournaments. And Mega-Summer, but that is because my players are going to win packs of…get ready for it…Marvel Universe! See, I have two boxes!
Back to the Ranma Bashing… uh, I mean the ordering reprints thing…
Because profit is profit. “UHHHH, why would I make 200,000 dollars if I can’t make 300,000! UGHHHH! I’ll just QUIT!”
Since RanmaMike failed to quote somebody, I have to assume RanmaDave got ahold of the handle and just wrote something.
Then my man Torch gets rolling on this one. Torch writes alot, and apparently fast. You need to hit this link and just read everything Torch has to say.
I made my last post on this topic on Sunday:
When I started this (in my first reply to the second notice from UDE and evolved the conversation into this thread) it was because I really didn’t get it. How can we be sure that not just us, but our hobby league players get the cards they are looking for from each expansion set?
We have seen alot of arguments explored. UDE doesn’t want to waste money. Our players do not want to waste money. UDE doesn’t want to print too much because the cards will sit and they will never get rid of them. With a 330 card set, the amount purchased by the players does not provide them with the resources to build what they want to play without heading to the secondary market. And with all of us freaking out about the limitedness of MUN, the secondary (and some brick and motar/distributors) have had a field day raising the prices of singles and boxes.
How do we get our cards without sacrificing a tankful of gas (y’know, 3 years ago, this would have been a horrible comparison)?
I think the VS gurus finally figured it out by increasing the size of the set. If you make commons and uncommons harder to find, people will buy more packs. Earlier Torch said when he was hardcore, he’d buy 3 boxes and then chase the rares. Now players can’t seem to finish playsets with what they initially purchased of MUN. That’s a good thing for UDE. People will buy more boxes.
MUN, DCL or even MVL will not sit on the shelves. This was really “VS 2.0″. If the parent company had made the cards available for the distributors to actually re-order, you would have seen the resurgence of players and attitudes with MUN. This set would be the start of the second wave of Legend content (if not for the DC incident) giving players old and new to time to see the new approach and say, “Hey, VS is cool again!”. The relaunch with the Legends brand finally allow some of us fanboys to build teams featuring the main character, not that guy and his team. It is what VS should of done in the beginning.
This should be an exciting time for this game, but it seems more like a fat lady singing.
And that was it from me.
A side note, WalterKovacs, the moderator I mentioned before, made a new thread on this same exact topic, as if the last weekend never happened. I think he was pissed because…
STUNNEDHENCHMAN wins the thread!
To sum up, this conversation has never been about me. This is for Marc, and Torch, and Dennis (who was pissed about Alpha Flight), and John, and even Erich. This was me trying to make a point to UDE that these guys were not given an opportunity to get what they wanted without going to the secondary market. Everyone has expenses that have increased since the Democrats took control of the Legislative Branch, and if UDE doesn’t wake up, VS will be sacrificed. And just to point out how much we don’t need you, Magic Set Editor 2 has just been updated. Check out the new EA…
As for RanmaSolo, it always seems like we are on the opposite side of a topic. And he seems angry alot. But don’t anyone of you reading this think I hate the guy, I don’t know him. Or RanmaSue, or even RanmaJim. This is what I want you to do, if you made it all the way through this over 4000 word post, I want you to visit RanmaVs’s blog. (I think RanmaVs is another Ranma, Mike must have a big family) I want you to vote for his site on the Top Sites link (but not before voting for mine first) because we are neck and neck there, and I think if the Ranma Family and the Benders team-up, we could kick “The Brave and the Blog’s” ASS!!!!
MEGA-SUMMER KEYPHRASE OF THE WEEK: Ranma has sand in his vagina!